Feb. 9, 2013
The Golden Dawn party in Greece is presently the primary interest for Alex Linder of VNN Forum. Our conversation started and ended with it, but in between he also talked about Anders Breivik, the gun control legislation Obama is trying to pass, and infighting in the “movement” – how it should and shouldn’t be done. Some of the points made:
- Why a nationalist party could gain success in Greece, but not elsewhere in Europe or the U.S.;
- Only young men will carry out a revolutionary movement;
- Must say clearly that “we are White and want what is good for Whites;
- Begin organizing from national conditions or on a state or regional basis?;
- How much individualism can be tolerated in a political party manifesto;
- Sandy Hook and Gun Control – planned or accidental;
- Alex’s thread on Strategy.
An email from Paul and a phone call from Stuart added to the show. Missed an email from Stuart telling me the militias are alive and well, see here. Sorry about the abrupt closing – my fault.
- 2228 views
Original comments on this program
carolyn
48 Responses
Carl
February 9, 2013 at 5:11 pm
I have long felt that the best way to protect an emergent organization from Jews is to incorporate rejection of the Holocaust directly into the organization itself, such as bylaws, and even activities, such as ongoing education of members. And of course naming the Jew as appropriate, not just babbling “it’s the Jews” but intelligently outlining the pernicious racial influence in clear terms. Any tip-toeing around those things is a dead giveaway of ultimate ineffectiveness.
Any Whites who don’t want to start putting their name and face out there should start to exercise both body and mind. Watching niggerball and playing video games are bad habits.
Non-whites swarm in defense of their ‘honor’. This will be a problem. The streets are often theirs already because we are busy and less swarm-oriented.
Hadding
February 9, 2013 at 6:59 pm
Political compromise falls under very different considerations in a country with proportional representation, like Germany or Greece, than in the U.S. system. It’s much easier under proportional representation for a party to be honest and still win some representation in the government.
Even so, Hitler did ultimately compromise on economics in order to keep the support of nationalist rich, reducing Gottfried Feder’s prominence and influence. (The compromise created a division in the party culminating in the Night of the Long Knives.) A few years later, the non-aggression pact with the USSR represented another necessary compromise of principle.
Carolyn
February 9, 2013 at 8:18 pm
An example of right-wing party “infighting” just cropped up — the party that the emailer Paul Hickman just quit. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/neo-nazi-former-bnp-members-launch-new-far-right-party. An interesting and instructive read.
shawn david
February 9, 2013 at 10:36 pm
great show carolyn..and tanstafl to..i’m not sure if n’ you’ve got a ‘youtube’ channel or not but my awa’kin’ing happend there so it’s somewhat an old friend..my ‘familia’ all think im a ‘hitlerite’..but i thought the same way for 30 yrs it seems…my channel is ‘shawn david’..stop by..say hi..
Steve
February 10, 2013 at 12:57 am
The jewish power comes from the state. Propagation of the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP) would inevitably allow for voluntary segregation without opposition, which is the precursor of a restoration of income freedom (no taxation without unanymous consent). I think the future is not through the unpopular direct meme of anti-jew, but rather through what is functionally just as anti-jew, which is: support for secession, opposition to the drug war, and a general pro-individual-freedom anarchist viewpoint, coupled with males learning “pick up artist” (anti-feminist, pro-science, pro-logic, minimalism) psychological understanding of the female psyche (and how to deal with crowds to gain favor). Once you have everyone agreeing with the moral that the initiation of force shall be universally opposed by all citizens, the state (composed of violent individuals initiating force against many people for purely non-violent behavior) can be opposed. Remember, pro-freedom unites everyone, and every group gets what they want, except for the parasites, jews, and true believer statists.
Rick1
February 10, 2013 at 2:25 am
Very nice interview. Interesting that Mr. Linder pointed out that Golden Dawn has actually existed for quite some time but is just now making gains. Right now, White racialists do not have any structure in place that could take advantage of an opportunity in the way Golden Dawn has done. If a collapse came any time soon in the US, I think White racialists would not come out as winners.
I disagree with Steve. The secessionist/anarchist/individual freedom movement is not a racialist movement. Doing anything that is not explicitly race-based and anti-jew means providing funds and energy to Ron Paul types. We need to do our own thing even if it means we are a much smaller group. Libertarians and the Ron Paul crowd are well-funded. We do not need to help them out.
Btw, A3P is now AFP (American Freedom Party). The name change suggests an approach more in line with what Steve has suggested. The Golden Dawn lesson though seems to be the opposite – more explicit messaging, more money to youth activism than to supporting intellectuals and a more on-the-ground in-person social rather than abstract/meta-political approach. Above all, we need to be ready for the reality of this country becoming majority non-White. The clock is ticking !!
Donnie
February 10, 2013 at 7:39 am
I stopped listening when it was suggested that Adam Lanza didn’t exist.
Jesus wept.
Ken
February 10, 2013 at 12:37 pm
Poor Donnie. I am sure you have not stopped listening to the lies told by the Jew Mass Media. Maybe you should ask your Jew Media why Adam Lanza died the day prior to the Sandy Hook Jew Media Event according to the Social Security Death Index. Poor Donnie just cannot question the Jew Lies as told by the idiot box.
Hadding
February 10, 2013 at 1:47 pm
This is approximately the reason why many White people have been supporting the less-government ideology for decades. It’s a losing strategy, now more than ever.
In this economic climate (which is probably not going to get better anytime soon) you have to be willing to use government to help the White working class, or you won’t ever get enough of their votes to attempt whatever else it is you want to do.
More broadly, you can’t defeat power by preaching against power itself as a matter of principle (in other words by being liberal, in the correct sense of that word). It’s delusional.
Carolyn
February 10, 2013 at 2:10 pm
I sure do agree with that, Rick.
Wallace
February 10, 2013 at 9:00 pm
(Hopefully this comment won’t ‘disappear’ like my previous comments have…)
Mr. Linder honestly thinks that killing kids like Breivik (supposedly )did is a good strategy?
Good luck getting any traction with that!
Also, Linder seems to be unaware that over 90% of Greek citizens are Orthodox (real) Christians.
Like most Westerners he seems to be entirely unaware of the existence of true Christianity as opposed to false, Judaized Western ‘Judeo-Christianity’ (which is in reality an oxymoron)…
Here we see Orthodox Christian priests blessing the opening of the Golden Dawn’s new offices in Corinth and Golden Dawn members Crossing themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrANux28bPA
Carolyn
February 10, 2013 at 9:16 pm
I resent your continuing to assert that I am “disappearing” your comments. I have only ever gotten 3 from you and published them all. Do you have a persecution complex? I like your comments just fine, apart from the snide remarks (or should I just say side remarks).
Fred Fred's
February 10, 2013 at 9:22 pm
ALex. Linder will soon drown in his own ignorance.
Carolyn
February 10, 2013 at 11:12 pm
Fred – I published this because I’m sure it represents a lot of people’s opinion. However, it’s just a cheap shot if you can’t point out what you think his ignorance consists of. If I interviewed you would you have anything of interest to say?
Wallace
February 11, 2013 at 12:03 am
Hi Carolyn,
I wasn’t really saying that you specifically were ‘disappearing’ them (maybe someone else is moderating them?) but my last couple of attempts to comment did not make it through.
I tried to post again and I got a message saying, “Duplicate comment detected – It looks like you already said that”, so I know it made it through that far anyhow. I tried again the next day too, but again it never went up.
Maybe they got caught up in your spam filter and were therefore deleted mistakenly?
On your episode of The Heretics Hour where you read Hitler’s speech ‘Why We Are Antisemites’ someone named ‘Lugh’ made a comment saying, “There’s no academic sources that says the Jews are “Khazars”.
I was trying to post a link to a story about a genetic study confirming the Khazar theory for the origins of ‘European Jews’.
I don’t know why it never showed up I just know that it didn’t… I still have it though I think so I’ll try to post it again right now. Perhaps you could check your spam filter and see if it’s in there for me?
Thanks Carolyn, I really do appreciate this site and your shows!
Carolyn
February 11, 2013 at 12:55 am
Hey Wallace, thanks to Tanstaafl, I just discovered your comments in the spam filter! I didn’t know anything ever got caught there. I should have looked; next time I will know to do that. Sorry if my reply was too sharp. I marked it “not spam” so it’s on here somewhere, but back where it fits date-wise. It’s at 1/31/12.
schmuley
February 11, 2013 at 9:55 am
As usual Carolyn did not answer email questions. She let Linder get away with Breivik’s Jewish/Jew state connections, the EDL etc.
Shame shame shame Carolyn. I try hard to trust you Carolyn, but I just dont.
Carolyn
February 11, 2013 at 10:32 am
Here is the comment from Wallace that got lost on Jan. 31:
Submitted on 2013/01/31 at 7:17 am
There’s no academic sources that says the Jews are “Khazars”… Lugh
I would like to see these so-called Academic sources that state that they are not, as I strongly doubt they exist.
Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews
You’d think the fact that they don’t look ‘Middle Eastern’ (at all) would clue people in!
Carolyn
February 11, 2013 at 10:55 am
Wallace – take a look at this: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html, especially the first two bullet items under “key findings,” #1 Studies of Jewish Populations. Tan clued me in to this page.
Carolyn
February 11, 2013 at 11:15 am
schmuley – As usual? Your messages were buried in a mass of “daemon” messages I was being spammed with; I didn’t see them until after the show was over and could go through all that. I wrote to you apologizing for that. There were three! from you, but they didn’t make much of an impression on me. What is your point? Why not present it here in writing rather than just making insinuations.
All you anonymous types make me sick. At least Linder stands up with his own name and always has. What do you do? Who are you hiding from?
My attention to Breivik is based on the good things he said criticizing the current liberal government of his nation, Norway, and getting international attention. He made a good case against forced immigration, which does result in mass murder of a whole population and national group.
Alexander from Flanders
February 11, 2013 at 8:49 pm
Very interesting interview. Mister Linder should have his own show on the White Network.
The only thing I did not like was the fact that you guys don’t seem to understand vegetarism. I stopped eating meat well over a decade ago, and I’m extremely healthy. I even fitness (with weights) 6 to 8 hours every week, go jogging and move only by bicyle.
Nick Dean
February 12, 2013 at 10:11 am
The majority of studies of Jewish genetics, and especially this is true of the larger studies, find that Ashkenazi Jews (the alleged Khazars) are more closely related to other Jewish groups like the Sephardim and Mizrahim than to any non-Jewish poluation, with Palestinan Arabs and the Druze being their closest relations among non-Jews.
Ted Sallis at TOO has done a few reviews of the research.
quoting: The data are consistent with a “weak Khazar hypothesis” — that Ashkenazi Jews may have some fraction of Khazar ancestry but are more closely linked to other Middle Eastern groups. On the other hand, the “strong Khazar hypothesis” — that the Ashkenazim are merely “converted Khazars without any connection whatsoever to the Middle Eastern populations of the classical world (i.e., Hebrews)” — is highly unlikely. Not only are the Ashkenazim genetically close to the Sephardim (who have traditionally been considered as likely Hebrew descendants), but this study yet again confirms previous findings of a significant fraction of historical Middle Eastern ancestry in the Ashkenazim.
Therefore, the idea that the Ashkenazim are simply Khazars with no Middle Eastern ancestry is untenable.
However, equally untenable is the idea that the Ashkenazim are “just like Europeans” and are not distinct from the European genepool. It is quite clear that Europeans are different from Middle Easterners, with various Jewish groups positioned intermediate to those two major Caucasian continental population groups. Indeed, it may be reasonable to see Jews as a “mini-race” as they are distinct from both Europeans and Middle Easterners and are indeed more similar to each other than to these other groups. / endquote
***
This position is so clearly the general and consensus one it must make people who can use google and read think White Nationalists, Jew-critics and cranky Christians insane when they keep talking about Khazars.
Carolyn
February 12, 2013 at 10:44 am
Alexander – that’s great, and I know it’s so much about one’s overall lifestyle. As we know, Adolf Hitler was not lifting weights, jogging and traveling by bicycle. (I am not being a smart-alec here.) I would like to ask you a question: Do you have children?
Phil
February 14, 2013 at 2:57 am
shawn david said:
“my ‘familia’ all think im a ‘hitlerite’..”
Yes indeed, Hitler was “rite.” If your family knew, really knew, what the man was all about and not instead believe the mountain of scurrilous lies that have been heaped upon his good name, in addition to coming to an understanding that the Jewish holocaust is a historical fraud and myth, a vicious anti-German libel, there’s a good chance they’d be Hitlerites too. That is, if they are intellectually honest and capable of critical thinking.
Phil
Phil
February 14, 2013 at 2:59 am
Carolyn said:
“As we know, Adolf Hitler was not lifting weights, jogging and traveling by bicycle.”
How could he? He didn’t have the time to!
Phil
Wallace
February 15, 2013 at 8:42 pm
Hi again Carolyn,
Apologies for the tardy response (been having computer issues)…
I have perused the khazaria.com site before, thanks. The study I linked to is newer though and addresses the issue of the impossibly huge population growth experienced in ‘Jewry’.
As the new study intimates, such rapid and immense population growth (a jump from 50,000 to 8,000,000) can only be explained by miracle or by religious conversion. I’m going to go with conversion!
The opposing ‘Rhineland Hypothesis’ for the origins of ‘Euro-Jewry’ is numerically and literally impossible unless the ‘Jews’ had a birth rate 10 times greater than that of the local non-Jewish population. To think that this is what actually transpired is ridiculous at best!
Not to mention that many of the studies on the issue referenced at khazaria.com seem to have been performed by Jews! They would never lie to us would they?
The site also speaks about ‘Israelites’… Where did they manage to get a verified ‘Israelite’ sample to compare against? All of the Israelite genealogies were destroyed by Herod ‘the great’ (as recorded by Josephus) so there is really no way to prove true Israelite lineage after Christ as far as I can tell…
Also many (most?) of the first century ‘Jews’ (Judeans) including the kings Herod were actually racially Edomites. So whatever ‘Jews’ eventually intermingled with the Khazarians, etc were likely racially of Edomite extraction rather than Israelite.
Anyway, it’s really not worth arguing over… They practice and keep the traditions of the anti-Christ cult religion of the ‘Jews’ (Pharisaism/Talmudism) so they are ‘Jews’ indeed (whether racially or not), for “who is a Jew” has always been a question of religion rather than race.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~
On another note, for Mr. Linder’s edification…
Here is an excerpt from ‘The Program of the Golden Dawn’ in English which I just came across (regarding Christianity) :
From: http://golden-dawn-international-newsroom.blogspot.gr/p/the-program-of-golden-dawn.html
‘Nuff said!
Carolyn
February 15, 2013 at 10:05 pm
Very good comment (#25), Wallace. Thanks for the golden dawn link. I guess I will send that last part to Alex Linder, as I don’t think he reads this site.
Tanstaafl
February 15, 2013 at 10:26 pm
@Wallace
Valid point. What are the sources on the population numbers you cite?
Being a jew has always been a question of whether your parents are jews, ie. heredity, ie. racial.
Hadding
February 16, 2013 at 8:03 pm
I am all about criticizing conservatism, but I do not agree with personally attacking conservative individuals.
If you attack Pat Buchanan or Jared Taylor personally, his supporters are going to see you as an enemy. By contrast, if you say that what Buchanan or Taylor says is right in this way but wrong in that way, then you get some agreement.
The question should be how best to reach out to people that follow conservatism. I would submit that an ad hominem attack on their hero is not a good way.
Wallace
February 16, 2013 at 8:08 pm
Hi Tanstaafl,
The numbers are discussed in the first link I left (the one that got trapped in the spam box).
As for whether the Jews are a race or a religion (cult)… There are Arab Jews, there are ‘White’ Jews, there are Black Jews, etc.
Surely we can’t suggest that an Ethiopian ‘Jew’ and a ‘White’ ‘Jew’ are of the same race?
Tanstaafl
February 17, 2013 at 11:21 am
@Wallace
There are no population numbers cited in your link, http://www.nation.co.ke/News/world/Gene-study-settles-debate-over-origin-of-European-Jews/-/1068/1667646/-/o2i3ge/-/index.html , and I can’t find any other link you’ve provided. Please repost your source.
You’re thinking only in terms of coarse, continental-scale race. Race is also fine-grained and is in this sense just another word for heredity, i.e. blood lines. DNA analysis reveals genetic connections between the various clusters of jews around the world.
The predominant racial strain, both in numbers and power, is the Ashkenazi strain. Here’s a little about their genetics.
race/history/evolution notes: Moment Magazine’s great (Jewish) DNA experiment:
Carolyn
February 18, 2013 at 2:00 am
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/16/gene-study-settles-debate-over-origin-of-european-jews/
Hadding
February 18, 2013 at 3:37 am
I remember when this was reported. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/12/AR2006011201896.html
Supposedly 40% of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from four women and, it says, almost no non-Jews are descended from those four women.
What struck me at the time was that, if you assume that those four women were authentic Jews from Palestine, it still leaves 60% of Ashkenazi Jews whose matrilineal descent is in doubt. It suggests that Koestler’s Thirteenth Tribe story could be largely but not entirely true.
Somebody might like to look at this study from the NIH.
Tanstaafl
February 18, 2013 at 2:32 pm
The Eran Elhaik article mentions the numbers but provides no source. It then presents only two possibilities, one of which it claims is “impossible” – a great example of false dichotomy.
Or…. the numbers are wrong.
A more detailed and objective historic analysis could also very well reveal that European communities were more ravaged overall.
Note the emphasis on narrative – a vague “tapestry” which puts “Judaised Khazars” first, alongside the suggestive claim that the “population structure was formed in the Caucasus”. The lack of numbers here, which any genomic analysis makes possible, is odd.
Compare with Studies Show Jews’ Genetic Similarity, which claims “Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews have roughly 30 percent European ancestry, with most of the rest from the Middle East”.
Whatever spin jews put on the DNA evidence, it confirms what was understood long before DNA was known, which is that the jews are a people whose biological connections to each other are more important than any ideology.
Tanstaafl
February 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Jew Jon Entine on Jewish DNA – Genetic Research and The Origins of the Jewish People.
Regarding your point Hadding fast foward to 12:50:
Hadding
February 18, 2013 at 5:15 pm
Circumcision is a barrier to male conversion to Judaism. In the Roman World, there were many more female than male converts to Judaism.
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Remember, pro-freedom unites everyone, and every group gets what they want, except for the parasites, jews, and true believer statists.
Yes, but the problem is half the white population is white niggers. Racialists talk about crime and jews, which is necessary, and what sets us apart, but what also could set us apart is talking about the state being the worst way to do everything except gang warfare. The better whites don’t need government to do anything except leave them alone. It’s like a racial protective umbrella/association at the federal level. What the working classes need is a government that stays out of the money, not one that is taking in half their income and then shuffling some of it back out for education and welfare. If ordinary white men can’t run their own lives without programs from the federal government, then our cause is worthless.
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 8:48 pm
In this economic climate (which is probably not going to get better anytime soon) you have to be willing to use government to help the White working class, or you won’t ever get enough of their votes to attempt whatever else it is you want to do.
You’re mistaking the cause for the cure. Times are bad because of big government. Only one man is saying that, and he is the one who got any whites fired up. Stealing his thunder is quite possible.
More broadly, you can’t defeat power by preaching against power itself as a matter of principle (in other words by being liberal, in the correct sense of that word). It’s delusional.
It’s a matter of where the power is vested. My view is that most of it belongs with individual white men, not with the state. You’d prefer ordinary white men be bossed around by the likes of Erich Gliebe and Kevin Strom.
The right way to go is to take advantage of the economic wisdom of the libertarians and combine it with our racial knowledge.
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 8:53 pm
Mr. Linder honestly thinks that killing kids like Breivik (supposedly )did is a good strategy?
Killing the enemy does work. That’s how the enemy took power, after all.
Like most Westerners he seems to be entirely unaware of the existence of true Christianity as opposed to false, Judaized Western ‘Judeo-Christianity’ (which is in reality an oxymoron)…
Every single subset of the jebus cult claims it and it alone represents true christianity. It’s one thing, among many others, that makes the thing a joke and a waste of time. Imagine if science were like religion! Where every single nattering nut claims his number is the REAL freezing point. Religion is thinking for people who can’t think. It must be taken into account as a political factor, but in no other way.
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 9:01 pm
Right now, White racialists do not have any structure in place
This is far overrated as a problem. The real problems are
1) defining “we”
2) figuring out what “we” want
3) figuring out how to structure an organization so that the leadership kernel is protected
I have the answers to the first two (see my Strategy section); the third is more a technical matter than anything. A party or organization can spring up overnight — Tea Party, for instance. It means little unless the organization knows who it is and what it wants. As the tea party did not, hence it’s being coopted into more feckless, gelded conservatism by the Glenn Becks.
Also, the mindset is far too much in the democratic voting vein when the thing that really matters is protection – both physical fighting and intellectual/electronic security. This is what Golden Dawn’s example shows. If you have the ability to fight and protect your core, then even a 7% in the voting booth is enough to scare the power structure into openly talking about banning your group! Think about that. The irony is that even National Socialists like Hadding are trapped in the conservative democratic-pandering mindset I made fun of.
Which is it Hadding? Do you want a master state that dictates what kind of toilet paper we can buy? Or do you want to walk around all genial and grinny, asking middle-class women what you can do to make their lives more pleasant?
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 9:16 pm
The only thing I did not like was the fact that you guys don’t seem to understand vegetarism. I stopped eating meat well over a decade ago, and I’m extremely healthy. I even fitness (with weights) 6 to 8 hours every week, go jogging and move only by bicyle.
Vegetablers can be healthy, but they are certainly guilty of bad taste, which is a worse crime than bad health. Meat tastes better than vegetables. That’s why normal people eat meat. Along with it being the best source of proteins. If you want to scramble around like a mouse nibbling on beans and nuts, go for it, but you’ll notice that vegetarians are the only eaters who feel the need to defend what they eat, and that’s because meat is so damn good only a nut would give it up. Meat has to be lied about it’s so good – all the garbage about it causing heart attacks is a staple lie in the mass media, akin to diversity being a strength. If you have to argue, a vegetarian meal can be just as tasty as X meat dish, you’ve already lost and become absurd. You never see anyone say something like “Cooked properly, a steak can be just as tasty as quinoa with chickpeas and tomatoes.” If you choose to reject one of the greatest physical pleasures in this world, that’s your business, but don’t expect others to see you as anything but a nigger toe (and that’s an old-school term for a nut).
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 9:30 pm
On another note, for Mr. Linder’s edification…
Here is an excerpt from ‘The Program of the Golden Dawn’ in English which I just came across (regarding Christianity) :
The Golden Dawn is opposed to Church-state separation. She seeks to restore the prestige of the (Orthodox Christian) Church and to remove all the decadent and internationalist members of the clergy.
Religions that offend the Greek tradition and history and damage the strength of the nation will be banned. Greek Orthodoxy reborn once again, will be a pioneer in the struggles of the nation.
That is what they say – now. In my opinion they are insincere, and making a mistake. Their entire history, on view in their magazine, is racialist in the way we’re all familiar with. Now, on the verge of serious power, they are faced with a wide array of enemies, domestic and foreign. It makes no sense to get into a battle on the religious front too. So they downplay their own past and present a united front with the church when it comes to such things as going after, say, Corpus Christi, a play by a fag depicting Jesus and the disciples as fags.
In my view, Golden Dawn is making a mistake. Already the top Orthodox guy in Greece has denounced the party, as have lesser clerics. They have found the stray one to bless their office, but the ones at the top, and many of the rank and file, already attack the party, and will continue to do so, and with greater fervency, as GD’s power grows and as they are urged to by the usual international forces. And then again, as I point out tirelessly, the jebus cult is universalist. That cannot be changed. That’s why you find in Greece the church is perfectly willing to aid these noxious pest illegal aliens from Pakistan and Nigeria. What does the church care? One man is as good as another.
In any case, anyone who tries to sell you that Golden Dawn is a christian cultural conservative party as we are long familiar with in the West is completely wrong. It’s something else entirely – the real thing.
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 9:35 pm
Hadding
February 16, 2013 at 8:03 pm
I am all about criticizing conservatism, but I do not agree with personally attacking conservative individuals.
If you attack Pat Buchanan or Jared Taylor personally, his supporters are going to see you as an enemy. By contrast, if you say that what Buchanan or Taylor says is right in this way but wrong in that way, then you get some agreement.
The question should be how best to reach out to people that follow conservatism. I would submit that an ad hominem attack on their hero is not a good way.
This above is a good example of how no one is as dumb as a smart guy.
You’re completely wrong. How do the winners in this society do it? They ad hominem until their lungs fall out. it’s all they ever do. They literally never argue for their position, all they do is smear their oppoents. And it works.
Others are not like you, Hadding. You’re confusing your own preference with dmonstrated, manifest reality.
If you attack people by name, their supporters will assume you are strong and right. And if the man doesn’t respond, and the two are remotely on the same level (so it can’t be played off as some critic not worth taking note of) them the non-respondent will be seen as weak, and begin to lose his followers to the attacker. Jared Taylor can’t pop his smarmy lying head up without getting attacked by those who pose my questions to him. He’s still around, yes, he hasn’t died yet like Sam Francis, but no one is scared of him, and that means no one takes him serious. Which is as it should be. He is a clown, a liar, and an anti-White, and his very existence is proof there is no real White movement – yet.
Alex Linder
February 18, 2013 at 9:42 pm
Thanks, Carolyn, for having me on again, I really enjoy these shows. I totally forgot about the comment section or I would have responded earlier. If anyone else has points to make or questions I will respond.
Hadding
February 18, 2013 at 10:57 pm
Not exactly.
Yeah I know Linder. We’ve established that you’re a Reaganite with attitude. But Reaganism is delusional and simplistic. Reaganism is a political superstition that has to be overcome. It’s bad for getting votes as well as bad policy.
A large part of the support for Ron Paul was anti-war and anti-establishment. I would have voted for him on that basis even though his economic ideas are wrong.
Carolyn
February 18, 2013 at 11:07 pm
Thank you, Alex. I guess I should have prompted you, but thought you just might not want to post here. So it’s great. Very lively.
Will Williams
February 20, 2013 at 12:24 pm
@ Linder: “don’t expect others to see you as anything but a nigger toe (and that’s an old-school term for a nut).”
—
Not just any nut, smarty, but a Brazil nut, because it resembles the toe of a Negro. It must be a southern thing — you know, from the White southern Americans you despise, insult and smear with your oh-so-brilliant ad hominem to get them to follow you to wherever it is you fantasize taking them.
Linder @ Hadding: “You’re completely wrong. How do the winners in this society do it? They ad hominem until their lungs fall out. it’s all they ever do. They literally never argue for their position, all they do is smear their oppoents. And it works.
“If you attack people by name, their supporters will assume you are strong and right. And if the man doesn’t respond, and the two are remotely on the same level (so it can’t be played off as some critic not worth taking note of) them the non-respondent will be seen as weak, and begin to lose his followers to the attacker…”
—
How does that work when you continually attack a righteous White man on your forum, by name, with your patented ad hominem smears and insults — a man who agrees with your radical positions on Christianity, race and the Jew for the most part — but is not allowed to respond to your attacks of him because you permabanned him from your sandbox years ago? Who is seen as weak then? Or cowardly? Who believes your betters like Kevin McDonald or Kevin Strom will ever stoop to respond to your calculated ad hominem smears of them at VNN?
The difference between you and the obnoxious Federal prisoner and Hollywood Nazi Bill White is that he admitted to attacking his betters in hopes that they would respond, therefore, to his twisted thinking, elevating him to their level; whereas you attack them in the hope that they will not respond, therefore “proving” you are strong and they are weak.
Were I to build a movement — a real world one as opposed to your Internet “spintro” fan club — I’d take one serious, ultra-dedicated, truth-telling Hadding Scott and one serious, ultra-dedicated, truth-telling Kevin Strom over 100 of you and 100 Bill Whites with your childish, calculated insults and smears, and overblown egos, and start building in southern Appalachia with them by telling simple unvarnished truths to the very people you so despise. The more you were to smear our efforts with your foolish attacks, the less attention we were to pay you, the more the serious, and sincere followers of Dr. Pierce’s teachings would prefer joining their strength to ours.
Soberly and consistently telling cold, hard truths: that’s what works! That’s what attracted men like Kevin, Hadding, me and thousands of others to Dr. Pierce. I don’t know why you ever joined our Alliance; you’ve done nothing but badmouth it and us and try to associate us with Erich Gliebe for the past decade. How many former, real world Alliance members have you convinced to “follow” you by that strategy?
Why do you not attack Golden Dawn for being an explicitly Christian movement so as to win its followers over to your Internet VNN-team? You can’t, that’s why. You are inconsistent and contradictory by hitching your “vanguard” wagon to GD’s star and are in no position to tell the truth all the time. Your words, above, reveal this: “It makes no sense to get into a battle on the religious front.”
Hadding
February 21, 2013 at 12:36 am
In some ways I think Alex Linder never left The American Spectator.
What Linder seems to be describing there is the kind of rhetoric that is used by party-nominees running for office in the unfortunate two-party system with which we are saddled. In this system, the general election is won by being all things to all people. This can be accomplished by personally attacking the opposing candidate while, to the extent possible, avoiding issues. In this way a fragile coalition of people that really don’t agree on very much can be cobbled together perhaps long enough to get past election-day.
I mentioned in my last essay for TOO that electoral politics and White advocacy are distinct matters that require distinct approaches. Regardless of whatever bullshit works in electoral politics, the movement for White interests must lie fundamentally outside of electoral politics and must be grounded in truth in order to last.
I appreciate that, and I want to say that I think that Alex Linder is a smart guy too, and I have noticed that he has a lot of smart guys and smart gals on his forum as well, sharing his interest in ad hominem rhetoric.
If you rely heavily on an irrational form of rhetoric, the kinds of people that you attract will tend not to be of a rational sort.