By Carolyn Yeager
THE POLES ARE ONCE AGAIN CONJURING UP DEMANDS for more financial “reparations” from Germany stemming from WWII. An analysis being prepared in the Polish parliament's research office is expected to be ready by August 11, according to a Law and Justice party lawmaker. Here are what some Polish officials are saying:
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of the conservative ruling Law and Justice party (PiS): “The Polish government is preparing itself for a historical counteroffensive. We are talking here about huge sums, and also about the fact that Germany for many years refused to take responsibility for World War II.”
(I must say, lies flow from the lips of Poles as easily as from the lips of Jews. One cannot tell the difference.)
Antoni Macierewicz, Defense Minister: “Communist-era Poland was a Soviet puppet state, whose decision at the time could no longer still be valid. Germans need to pay back the terrible debt they owe to the Polish people.”
Ryszard Czarnecki, a ruling party member and deputy head of the European Parliament: “If Jews have gotten compensation — and rightly so — for loss of property, why shouldn't we too make claims?”
LOL – They give themselves away. Follow the Jews.
Arkadiusz Mularczyk, PiS lawmaker: "The bureau must prepare information on the possibility for Poland to demand from Germany compensations for the military damage … I want to gather all the information on the issue and think about further steps. I want everything to be prepared professionally."
Poland will push their claim as being equal to the claim of the Jews, in spite of the fact that the Polish government waived its right to German post-war compensation back in 1953 following the signing of the London Agreement on German External Debts.
How it worked, from Wikipedia:
On 23 August 1953, the Communist People's Republic of Poland announced it would unilaterally waive its right to war reparations from East Germany on 1 January 1954, with the exception of reparations for Nazi oppression and atrocities. East Germany in turn had to accept the Oder-Neisse border, which gave around 1/4 of Germany's historic territory to Poland and Russia. [...] [The] Gierek-Schmidt agreement signed in 1975 in Warsaw, stipulated that 1.3 billion DM [would] be paid to Poles who, during Nazi occupation, had paid into Germany's social security system without receiving pension.
After German reunification, Poland demanded reparations again, as a reaction to claims made by German refugee organizations demanding compensation for property and land repossessed by the new Polish state that they were forcibly deported from as a stipulation of the Potsdam Agreement and the priorly mentioned Oder-Neisse border. [The Germans didn't get anything but] In 1992, the Foundation for Polish-German Reconciliation was founded by the Polish and German governments, and as a result Germany paid Polish sufferers ca. 4.7 billion złoty. There is an ongoing debate among “Polish international law experts” if Poland still has the right to demand war reparations, with some arguing that the 1954 declaration wasn't legal.
Poland and Israel are the only two countries that expect to extract continual financial reparations from Germany, even though the FRG voluntarily gives generous aid to both countries. If I thought the bankruptcy of the Federal Republic would bring about it's downfall and the German people could re-establish themselves with a new national constitution and clean slate, I would be all for it. But I don't think that would be allowed to happen, thus I must accuse the Polish people of being greedy pigs and downright liars, just like the Jews. There are no saving qualities in the Polish personality except for those who have Polish blood but totally separate themselves from this wretched people and do not freely identify with them.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, head of the PiS and widely considered the most powerful political figure in Poland, has for more than a decade called for further financial reparations from Germany.
Ulrike Demmer, deputy spokeswoman for the German government said—not for the first time—that the question of restitution was closed. Germany "has made significant reparations for general war damage, including to Poland, and is still paying significant compensation for Nazi wrongdoing," she said.
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Germany's guilt
Franklin Ryckaert
I don't know if Poland really deserves that money from Germany, but you cannot deny that those "hard-working" Germans during the war robbed Poland of its wealth, killed some 3 million ethnic Poles and kidnapped some 200,000 children for "germanization". And was it really the fault of the Poles that their border was shifted to the West, or was it Stalin's idea?
The issue here IS the money,
carolyn
The issue here IS the money, Franklin - not to re-argue who was at fault for what during the war. Although I do dispute that 3 million ethnic Poles were killed by German forces, or that 200,000 Polish children were kidnapped. Nor did Poland ever object to the gain of German territory, or try to give it back after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989. Why would they when in 1939 they were threatening to grab a huge swathe of Germany all the way to and including Berlin!
In addition, the post-war German government and private German citizens have contributed billions $ to Poles in the form of aid, foodstuffs, medicines, and other useful goods - in spite of the ungrateful response of the Poles.
The Poles have always been subservient to someone else, whether Russians, Jews or Germans - later the EU and now the USA-Israel. Even during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Lithuanians were the more powerful, capable partner. Are you married to a Polish woman, Franklin? Come on, time to bring things out into the open. Yes or no.
The 'three million dead Poles
David
The 'three million dead Poles' figure should be treated with scepticism:
http://vho.org/tr/2003/2/Mueller151-156.html
Yes, indeed
carolyn
Thanks for this, David. It is the same Dr. Otwald whose work I used in one of my most popular articles, "The Search for WWII mass graves". Please read the first third of that article which is Otwald's refutation of the Polish death count of 6 million, and is what inspired our article.
The 3 million number for ethnic Poles is another of the Poles' fantastic lies. Lying about their history is what they're known for.
The anwer is no
Franklin Ryckaert
The answer is no. Moral objections against immoral behavior are based in the moral sense, and need not be "explained" by personal circumstances. I stll have not met any systematic refutation of the crimes of the Nazis in eastern Europe, such as exist about the Holocaust. Maybe because they cannot be refuted.
Poland was "shifted" to the West and gained territory at the cost of Germany, but at the same time it lost territory in the East to Russia. To rectify the situation would require the cooperation of Russia too.
Good to have that cleared up
carolyn
Thank you for your answer, but your assumption that you stand on high moral ground on this issue is baseless. It's just your opinion, as is "the crimes of the Nazis in eastern Europe." What crimes? - the ones invented for the Nuremberg Tribunal in 1946?
Since you agree that the "Holocaust" is a big lie, it stands to reason that since Hitler didn't commit that greatest of all crimes, maybe he didn't commit the others either.
"Maybe because they cannot be refuted." Name the crime and I'll tell you if it cannot be refuted. The two you already mentioned have been.
I know that both borders were shifted but that doesn't make it okay for Poland to take a quarter (!) of German land, and not only that but to kill and expel all the ethnic Germans on only a few hours' notice and take their homes and belongings. Where are the reparations for that??? Refused by Poland!! And the borders shift could not have been done without the blessing of the US and UK - Roosevelt and Churchill. Poles were quite happy about it since they got Germany's rich industrial centers and the cities where the Germans had lived and made civilized. Poland is not interested in "recifying the situation."
Franklin, in spite of your constant harping about German crimes against Jewish-ruled Poles and Russians, there isn't as much refutation of it as the "Holocaust" because far fewer people give a damn about these people and places. More needs to be done. You "care" only because it's a way to denounce Germans--the best of the Europeans (and the hardest working).
Wild story
carolyn
This is quite a wild story about a Polish national living in Britain. Talk about a dumb Pole!
http://www.dw.com/en/polish-man-jailed-for-kidnapping-british-model/a-39980993
Anecdotal value
Franklin Ryckaert
Your "wild story" has only anecdotal value. What is important is statistics. If you go to "List of countries by intentional homicide rates" (per 100,000), you will find that Poland with 0,74 has the lowest homicide rate of Eastern Europe. It is even lower than Germany's 0,85. Corrected for Germany's immigrant population, both countries will be about the same.
As for Poles in the UK, I googled "Polish crime in the UK" and found the article "'Poland tops league for foreign inmates in UK jails, ahead of Ireland", dailymail.co.uk Apr 27, 2014. We will only concentrate on peoples of European descent. At that time there were in UK jails 989 Poles, 778 Irish, 588 Romanians, and 518 Lithuanians. So Poles are indeed the most criminal in the UK ? Absolutely yes, relatively no. There are in the UK 831,000 Poles, 382,000 Irish, 220,000 Romanians and 151,000 Lithuanians. If the other Europeans in the UK were as criminal as the Poles with 989 inmates, the Irish would have 455 inmates instead of 778, the Romanians would have 156 inmates instead of 588, the Lithuanians 95 instead of 518. So the Poles in the UK are of all Eoropean groups the least criminal, your "wild story" notwithstanding.
"There are in the UK 831,000 Poles"
carolyn
LOL, Franklin. You are a riot. You compulsively defend the Poles at every turn, yet it doesn't occur to you to wonder why there are almost a million of them living in the UK. These are Polish nationals, not British citizens. What's wrong with their own country? Poland has a large land mass (compliments of Germany which was forced to give up 1/4 of its territory to another "new" republic of Poland created following WWII), much of which is very lightly populated. Germany, on the other hand, is densely populated yet over 2 million Polish nationals live and work there!
So what's going on with Poland? They can't support their own population, who flee their own country like rats, yet they are greedy for territory. Their greed is like the greed of Jews -- just for it's own sake. Give us more, more, more. Opportunistic Poles seek better wages and living conditions outside of their struggling Slavic nation. In addition, Poland has received billions in "developmental aid" from the EU over the 13 years they've been a member. That means it comes from Germany, France and Britain. So much for the equality of all Whites.
(Also, I notice you have no retort to the FACTS I presented to you about your incorrect 3 million number for "murdered Poles.")
Economic performance
Franklin Ryckaert
I was only discussing the criminality of Poles (which turns out to be not higher than that of Germans), not their economic performance. Whether their poor economic performance should be ascribed to the after effects of 44 years of Communist misrule, or to "Slavic inferiority" has to be seen. Former East Germany, also under Communist misrule for 44 years, is still doing badly too. Maybe there is no "racial" factor.
It would be nice if a systematic refutation of for example the Wikipedia article "Nazi crimes against the Polish nation" could be produced. Perhaps it could also be proved that 200,000 Polish children were NOT kidnapped by the Nazis for "germanization". After all the noble Nazis would never do such a thing, no ? The Poles may have exaggerated a bit, but surely something did happen.
Objectivity is needed
carolyn
I was only discussing the criminality of Poles (which turns out to be not higher than that of Germans)
Oh yes it is. Your single example does not explain why so many Poles travel to richer countries and then rob and steal from them. It was widely written about how Polish gangs, etc. crossed over the border at night to steal -- cars and car parts were the most popular items. Here's one I just easily found from 2010 - http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/purloined-porsches-germany-s-open-borders-a-boon-for-car-thieves-a-693129.html It's probably still going on unless all Eastern German car owners have figured out they have to protect their vehicles with all kinds of alarm and security devices. Germans do not go over to Poland to do the same !!!!
Former East Germany, also under Communist misrule for 44 years, is still doing badly too.
No, it isn't. It's not doing quite as well as former West Germany but it does much, much better than Poland. So there is a racial factor.
It would be nice if a systematic refutation of for example the Wikipedia article "Nazi crimes against the Polish nation" could be produced.
You're asking for a lot. Why not ask that the claims on that page be proven, not just sourced to some Polish "historian's" or fiction-writers book. It's also not possible to edit pages like this because the Jews, and in this case the Poles, stand guard over them and remove your edits. Germar Rudolf wrote about his experience with it here. (scroll down to 2nd article on the page)
Perhaps it could also be proved that 200,000 Polish children were NOT kidnapped by the Nazis for "germanization".
That's not the way it works. You're not supposed to have to prove that something DID NOT happen. The rule of thumb is to exaggerate by 10, so the actual number you should be talking about is 20,000. The "proofs" presented for this happening on such a large scale are extremely thin, based on 3rd or 4th rate books of the popular type. I am surprised that you would lower yourself to depend on a Wiki page like this, clearly put together and under the control of Poles. It's garbage.
but surely something did happen.
Sure something happened. But not kidnapping. That was a word unfortunately used by Himmler one time. The Germans were trying to salvage what they believed to be good genetics and turn them into loyal citizens of the Reich so they would not have to remove so many of them from the Eastern territory or put them into camps. Remember, Official Poland was resisting and fighting on the side of the enemy, but many Poles were eager to become Reich citizens and tried to measure up. It was seen as a solution to the population problem.
You look at all this in a very one-sided way. After 75 years, one would think you could be more objective about it.
Two different moral universes.
Franklin Ryckaert
In terms of murder Poles are not worse than Germans. Stealing cars is not as bad as murder. Such thefts are done by a few gangs that are not representative for the whole population.
"You're not supposed to prove that something DID NOT happen." That is true usually, but in the case of the Holocaust revisionists did just that, so why not do the same in the case of the alleged crimes of the Nazis in eastern Europe ?
You say kidnapping (of blond Polish children) did not happen, then you go on saying in euphemist terms that it DID happen and you even JUSTIFY it : "The Germans were trying to salvage what they believed to be good genetics and turn them into loyal citizens of the Reich so they would not have to remove so many of them from the Eastern territory or put them into camps." I am appalled by your reasoning ! So you justify murder, robbery, kidnap of children, ethnic cleansing and theft of territory, but you are outraged by a few thefts of cars ?
I'm afraid we live in two different moral universes.
You have lost the argument
carolyn
I'm afraid you have lost the argument and so are mixing up apples and oranges in your attempt to regain control. I'm sure it's easy for most readers to spot, since you have left the original arguments and all logic far behind. This is my final reply.
First, I referred to the car thefts in response to your complaint about my "wild story" about the Polish kidnapper in Britain as a one-off ... not to what took place in WWII !!! We were comparing the civilian criminal populations in peacetime. There were no Germans imprisoned in the UK, were there? Not enough to mention anyway.
2nd point: Proving the Nazis did not kidnap 20,000 Polish kids would require having access to all the documents, which I do not have. Maybe you could write to some busy revisionist like Carlo Mattogno and ask him to look into it. The term "kidnap" is what I'm objecting to. As I said, Himmler used that word once (at least that is how it was translated), but that is not what was going on. I didn't see any proof of it on that Wiki page, either, which is what you're going by.
3rd point: Blond Polish children -- What the Germans did not do was kill them, right? They all survived. But the Poles killed as many Germans as they could, right? Mothers and little children and babies in the womb, right? Which is the better way?
4th point: You illogically say I justify murder, robbery, kidnap, ethnic cleansing, theft of territory by my words. My words backed none of that. It was wartime, buddy. The Allies did all those things to the Germans and I've only heard you justify it, not condemn it. Nor did I express "outrage" about the car thefts. I just pointed it out as evidence to refute your claim that Poles were no more criminal than Germans.
In conclusion, I'm afraid your puffed-up moral universe has deflated quite a bit. Clearly Poles are more criminal than Germans. You are backing the wrong horse in this race.
"Communist Misrule"
Markus
This phrase, for some reason, is always mentioned when discussing why Poland and other Slavic countries, underperform compared to Germanic countries.
First off, Poland and other Slavic countries were behind before Communism was even thought of, let alone implemented.
Secondly, East-Germany was also Communist, yet it was the most powerfull economy of the entire Eastern block, second only to gigantic USSR itself.
The GDR had to pay vast amounts of money for reparations to the USSR, and let's not forget that its cities were completely bombed out, when the state formed in 1948/49. Despite being separated from the traditional inner-German market to the West (FRG) and the East (loss of territory to Poland/Russia), the GDR became a prosperous nation. It was the only country were socialism halfway worked, despite being drained many resources.
I wonder why that is?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_German_Democratic_Republ…
Hi Markus
carolyn
I hope Franklin read this. It might actually end his use of "communist misrule" as the excuse for Polish backwardness.
Franklin, you are welcome to come back and reply to Markus.
Poles again ......
Richard
I admire your will to argue, but with a Pole it is like speaking to a banana. I dont like Poles as they behave like Jews. Most likely why Poland had the most Jews since before the creation of Israel. Thier victim mentality makes me sick and reminds me of the Negro's in Africa. We demand..we demand...
They took the German land post WWII yet 3m live in Germany, 1m in France and they are the second largest immigrant group in the UK at 1m. What has the land benefitted them? Much like blacks demanding the land back in Zimbabwe and then starve from hunger. They not only rock up in Germany but are the majority immigrant groupds all over the place. Yet ....they appear to have that same Jewish superiority complex. The Irish are so tired of them that they burn Polish flags. Nobody wants them or needs them and they are so arrogant.
About 2 years ago I said on this website that another European war is in the making. You said not so fast --- tell me I am wrong again.
Hi Richard
carolyn
Franklin Ryckaert is not Polish, but Dutch! But everytime I write something positive about Hitler or negative about the Poles, Franklin shows up with his same litany of "nazi crimes" against the Slavs. And he always depends on that same Wikipedia page.
There are a lot of men of Germanic heritage who are very afraid to let up even a little on the gas pedal of Hitler-hating, lest he reappear to threaten their comfort zone again. They can tolerate Jewish control much better.
Another European war? I hope not. Do you mean with Russia? Well, I'm more concerned with the US attacking Iran, which I think would be a horrible mistake. The US is so full of Jews in high positions it can't take an honest look at itself. At one time, in the early days, it did.
Everytime time I look at Mr
Gilson
Everytime time I look at Mr Kaczynski I see a mix of Tatar and Mongol. Lots of Eastern Europeans (in fact Western Asians) look like him.
Poland restitution of War Crime Kriegsgreuel
Paul
Poland has always been a problem neighbour. I do not know anything I can testify . We know what we perceive as truth from what we read. All German Umscreitungeen or crimes were punished with Feldgericht. They are using the old Jew Guilty before evidence by virtue they are German. I am persuaded by reading and talking with German soldiers these calim are shameless opportunists practicing eastern extortion.
Schlesien is Ost Deutschland with the heroic city of Breslau. a farming and most beautiful part. Also much of Prussia was given to Poland. After Versaille Dictate much of east Germany was lost. What today is called east Germany is actually Middel Germany Deutschalnd. Ost Germany belongs to the Poles and also Russia.
How much more do these Jews want? Because of the artificial (Ungerman) Occupational BRD, government such reparation demands, that suggests "foreign influence" are received and even conceded as just. In 1933 they were doing the same thing with political and ethnic persecution. It was solved by Blitzkrieg. It began the war. The Poles have forgotten the lesson of history.
There are Slavs and there are
Antidote
There are Slavs and there are Slavs. I can tolerate Poles, Czechs, and Croatians for the most part, but I steer clear of thieving Slovaks ands violent Serbs. The Russian, by and large are barbarous.
Operation Vistula
gokarz
So when is Poland going to accept responsibility for the destruction and dispossession of the Carpatho-Russyn commmunities after WWII during the ethnic cleansing pogrom known as Operation Vistula and make restitution for it?