The Heretics' Hour: Hitler and the Slavs, 2

Published by carolyn on Tue, 2014-10-21 00:47

Oct. 20, 2014

Why Hitler and Himmler did not enlist nationalist Russians and other Slavs to help them fight the war on the Eastern Front.2hr04min.

  • Adolf Hitler's opinion of Jews and Slavs originated with his experiences in Vienna in his late teens, early twenties;
  • Hitler considered the Germanic peoples the leading race of Europe and once much of Europe was occupied by the German Reich, thought to include other Germanic nations/peoples into the Reich, but only after careful "Germanization";
  • Himmler was desirous of preserving all "Germanic blood" - Hitler advised caution;
  • Danzig Free State and "Falsifications of Polish History" give important background on the true long-term intentions of Poland against Germany;
  • Himmler speaks at some length about "the Russian" whether Czarist or Stalinist, and about General Vlasov in his speech at Posen, Oct. 4, 1943;
  • The N-S attitude is "we take care of our own first" and this is what the so-called anti-slavism is all about.

Image: Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler shakes hands with captive Russian General Andrey Vlasov. Enlarge


The word Herrenvolk doesn't have anything (directly) to do with race. National-Socialist ideology is clear on the point that Volk (nation, folk, people) and Rasse (race) are different concepts.
Herrenvolk is a social concept, not a biological concept. It is not speciifically a National-Socialist term, but dates back to the age of Napoleon, when the French were designated a <em>Herrenvolk.</em>
The term <em>Herrenrasse</em> was coined by Friedrich Nietzsche, probably trying to be provocative and to emphasize the importance of heredity in determining a people's potential.
Hitler uses the word <em>Herrenvolk</em> precisely once in <em>Mein Kampf</em>, in reference to who will rule the planet in the distant future. I have never seen any National-Socialist publication that used Nietzsche's term <em>Herrenrasse,</em> although Anglo-American propaganda would lead one to believe that they talked about it constantly.
You said that a good translation for <em>Herrenvolk</em> would be "leading race." <em>Leading people</em> or <em>leading nation</em> is more like it. I prefer <em>hegemonic people.</em>
It makes a huge difference, because being a <em>Herrenrasse</em> would be a matter of what a race deserves based on heredity, whereas being a <em>Herrenvolk</em> is simply a matter of how things worked out historically. The mistranslation of <em>Herrenvolk</em> as either "master race" or "leading race" implies a racial conceit, and motives derived from it, that a correct translation of the term does not.

You're right, of course, I said Herrenvolk and then "master race." but this is how it appeared in William Shirer's book. These terms are so misused and even much more is mistranslated in order to present things as worse or different than they were. This really is the problem in educating the public about the Third Reich, WWII and "the holocaust." What they read or hear is not even accurate. It distorts reality.

Guess I"ll be talking about that next week.

I think Mensch is seen here as being humane not literally human. The entire discussion is about cruelty or being fair etc and Germans are humane, even with their enemies, while Slavs can be very cruel, or inhumane. In America, you have the expression "Come on, be a mensch" to ask for a favor or demand fair play. Hitler and Himmler obviously knew Slavs were human beings (many of Germanic blood). Animal or Untermensch describes this beastly behavior that Germans encountered so often as outlined in Else's text and elsewhere.
P.S. Gau sounds like Gow (as cow). Gaue sounds like Gow-uh. 

The adjective untermenschlich has a long history. It can be found in texts from the 1700s.
It denotes being morally depraved. It has nothing specifically to do with race.
The noun Untermensch seems to have appeared only after the American author Lothrop Stoddard wrote a book with the word "underman" in the title. Stoddard used the term underman to refer to the kind of person that supports Bolshevism, and such people exist to some extent in every nation. After that, the German equivalent appears.
Der Untermensch is also not specifically a racial term, although according to the prevalent thinking of this period, which Stoddard also represented, heredity was an important factor -- not the only factor -- in producing Untermenschen.

I have never had a big problem with the term Untermensch. Übermensch on the other hand, simply describes a human who has conquered his temptations and be of extreme good character, does it not? 

Uebermensch is another word that (so far as I know) was coined by Nietzsche. I am not aware of any National-Socialist use of that term, although it played a huge role in anti-German propaganda, along with Nietzsche's other neologism, Herrenrasse. Propaganda of both world-wars portrayed the Germans as godless Nietzscheans.
Any genuine discussion of the meaning of Uebermensch would be strictly a discussion about what Nietzsche meant.

what you did.

I always did pronounce it "gow" but I learned "au" is not pronounced "ow", but more like "aw." It gets confusing. Should have realized about
Gau-uh. Is that final "e" always sounded?

Gaue is plural and it is never silent. It's a grammatical rule that applies to all words that are structured alike. Das Seil, die Seile (rope). Das Spiel, die Spiele (game). Das Haar, die Haare (hair). Der Arm, die Arme (arm) etc. 
I noticed you said it correctly in other shows. I'm not judging, just wanted to let you know. It was still clear that you were talking about Gau/e. In French a+u+e sounds like o, I believe. Maybe that's the confusion. :-)

I decided to edit out your phone call since you never got a chance to say anything. I'm sorry. But I hope that won't put you off from calling again. I would like to have some discussion on Saturday, but I don't know about what yet.

I really cleaned it up - it needed it! All that blah, blah about having my mic on mute, emails and more. It's fun to do since I can just chop out what I don't like. Haha.

No hard feelings about the editing. I might call in next time, but again, I can't promise. 
In German, to be Mensch, is very much defined by the state of mind and kindness.
Herr (Herren plural) also means Lord or God not only mister, which itself derives from master, Meister in German. A Meister is someone, who knows his profession and is responsible for mastering his job and educating apprentices. If an American graduates with a masters degree, will he become part of a master-race or master-folk? If an entire nation knows better than others and on top cares for others, and excels in so many fields, is that not a master-folk? These terms are hard to swallow in times of artificial equality. And a master is not automatically a tyrant, as the desert people master race has proven itself to be.   

Gee, listening to the show made me feel like a Nigro or a conniving Jew. Yes, I am a Pole. You must know, Mrs Yeager, that I would agree with a lot what was said on the show. I'm also compelled to mention that we Poles are enormously critical about ourselves. We know how clumsy we can be, poorly organized without real leadership coming from our own people.
We do recognize German's diligence, strengh in organizing, leadership, art and the intelect thing. Most of us look up to the Germans and often say "what if" referring to historic events. 
We, the Polish children growing up in the 70ties would crack jokes about concentration camps in the II WW, gas chambers... the relating BS and never thought of it as facts. Our problem goes quite a few centuries back when Polish kings handed over the power to the "merchants".  
Yes, we never stopped being "dreamers".... but does not dreaming sets us apart from animals? And all the citation and reference does not represent the common folk. 
 My mother dag ditches for German soldiers in the II WWand has never spoken ill of the Germans... Still remembers being called for fruhstick.
My father often talked about the German occupation in the Eastern Territories and the more or less first encouners with western civilization. No ill talk.
Well, the Russian occupation was an 180 experience... time to run.
I myself lived in Germany in the 1980ties... made friends, worked and socialized with Germans and often visit Germany even though it is not cheap to travel to Europe. Loved the Octoberfest in Munich. 
Wish I had more time to comment.
Really enjoy your shows Mrs. Yeager... and don't put us down too much... heheh

Thanks for your interesting remarks. I know you have commented here before. Do you or did you live in Poland, or have you always been a Polish-American?  I would guess the latter, growing up maybe in a Polish neighborhood? Well, set me straight.

I wonder if you think it's important to correct the historical record so that it reflects the whole story and history of Polish aggressions towards its neighbors as well as their aggressions against Poles. Who and what are Poles, anyway? Maybe if honest research were allowed to be published, you would be calling yourself something other than Polish. Just something to consider.

I wonder, too, if you would be willing to read something about Poland written by a non-Pole, published in 1939 ... before the German-Polish war began. You will find it here: It's titled Poland From the Inside. And then tell me what you think should be the right approach to dealing with what is still a problem area that needs addressing. This article suggests that those who are called Slavs are not very similar people but, as Markus always points out, they speak a similar, but not same, language.

Yes, we never stopped being "dreamers".... but does not dreaming sets us apart from animals? And all the citation and reference does not represent the common folk.

I think what is meant is "unrealistic dreamers" who can't or won't see themselves as others do. I agree it's probably not inherent in the common folk; it has been inculcated into the culture, very much with the help of the clerical class.

For the people living in Poland now, I see it as a form of an addiction that needs a 12-step program approach in which it's faced head-on with no more enabling by the sympathetic bystanders who can't stand to see anyone "feel bad"  This approach can also be called  "Tough Love."

I'm about half way through. It's a good read. I'm glad you opened the discussion on the Slavic Question. Jesse's response is very nice. It also shows that the basis of the issue is not "unreasonable hatred" for Slavs but indifferences, mainly in organisational skills etc. and Poland's self-asserted idea of being an empire, even though Poland was and still is not capable of being the economic center that is required to hold such a title. In short, Poland's jealousy of Germany that grows out of initial admiration for the Germans. 10% Jewish population, I'm sure made quite an impact on inciting hatred for Germans, as well. While hatred for Russians is more rooted in reality, for Russians ruled with an iron fist. Not only during Communism. Plus, Bismarck's Kulturkampf against the Vatican caused the Church to hype Poles against the "heretic Teutons"  it all makes sense.

I think that an interesting point is that the Germans applied their "strength through joy" doctrine even to non-Germans that were doing forced labor for them. That's why there were recreational activities at Auschwitz. It was expected that the workers would be more productive that way.